Does Cia Background Investigation Continue if I Withdraw
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| QuickQuestion | #1 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 12:55:20 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered | Background: I'm working for a DoD organization, already have my TS/SCI. I'm considering reapplying to CIA (made it to the poly, my 1-year wait is up) but I've heard a few horror stories which give me pause. I've heard of three separate individuals who already had their TS/SCI applying to CIA, and the CIA rejecting them, causing their existing clearance to get revoked. In two of those cases, they were already working for CIA as contractors, and got revokations when they tried to switch to federal employee. What circumstances would lead to this? How common is this type of thing? I'm not concerned about dishonesty on the SF-86, I'm always completely transparent, I'm more paranoid that there is some threshold I passed for DoD but won't for CIA which could hurt my career if I apply. Any info would be helpful. | ||
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| mallen | #2 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:18:38 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Was thanked: 41 time(s) in 37 post(s) | I've wondered that as well. Like if you fail a polygraph because the polygraph says you were lying. The fact is (as in scientific fact based on a study by the NSF as well as many references in the scientific literature pertaining to polygraphs) that a polygraph is as likely to say a honest man is lying as a deceptive man is telling the truth and is no more accurate than an individual trained to spot lies simply asking you questions. I'm not trying to jump on the anti polygraph bandwagon, but honestly, I would not risk a stable job over a test that squirrelly. No one in their right mind would go for an interview if they were told "the interviewer will be watching you to see if he thinks you are lying and if he does, he will brand you a list and you will no only not be hired, you will be fired from your current job" If it's the case that failing won't affect your current clearence, then who cares, roll the dice. But not if it rusks your current job. I'm also not talking about ,say, you confess to murdering your ex girlfriend and burying her under your porch when the examiner presses you on why you seem so nervous when asked if you have ever comitted a felony. I mean, you just failed the test and he makes the judgement your being deceptive. | ||
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| QuickQuestion | #3 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:25:17 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered | I'm not too concerned about the ex-girlfriend part. I put it on my SF-86 | ||
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| mallen | #4 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 1:38:09 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Was thanked: 41 time(s) in 37 post(s) | Originally Posted by: QuickQuestion I'm not too concerned about the ex-girlfriend part. I put it on my SF-86 So long as you made sure to put an explanation of how it wasn't really your fault because she had it coming and made you do it in the comments section, you should be fine. It's not like the investigator hasn't had a naggy gf, right? Unless they go down that whole "Improper disposal of human remains" angle, then you might have a problem. At least now that it's all on the internet, you can be blackmailed by it. Edited by userTuesday, January 28, 2020 1:45:53 PM(UTC) |Reason: Not specified | ||
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| Endless Summer | #5 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:40:18 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Thanks: 55 times | Originally Posted by: mallen ... I'm also not talking about ,say, you confess to murdering your ex girlfriend and burying her under your porch when the examiner presses you on why you seem so nervous when asked if you have ever comitted a felony. I mean, you just failed the test and he makes the judgement your being deceptive. Was that wrong? Was I not supposed to do that? Because if I'd had any idea it was inappropriate I never would have even considered it. As for the clearance question, I guess if there was something that happened since you got your clearance for your current job, then it's possible that you could get some grief. Especially if you're a contractor, getting denied a clearance might cause you to lose your current clearance. | ||
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| velcroTech | #6 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:19:07 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Thanks: 27 times | If you have done something that would cause them to deny your clearance, more than likely they will revoke your current clearance. They are going to dig deep so if you have some skeletons in the closet you dont want coming out, you might want to rethink your application. If they deny you for suitability, and not a clearance denial you can keep your clearance but might have to wait another year. | ||
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| mallen | #7 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 7:42:10 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Was thanked: 41 time(s) in 37 post(s) | My big concern is those jobs that require a polygraph. The literature gives them an accuracy of about 70%, with as many false positives as false negatives. Now, if the government feels that it makes sense to screen applicants under those conditions, that's one thing. So I don't get a job, whatever. They don't owe it to me. Whether or not that's good policy is far above my pay grade. But are they going to brand me a liar and fire me from my current job. That's a whole different matter. If it was just a matter of "tell the truth and you have nothing to worry about" that would be fine. I understand about lying on the form or in the interview. I say "no, I don't owe any money to the federal government". They find I'm delinquent on a student loan. I lied, and should get what I deserve. The poly though is a different matter. 30% of the time it gets a flat out wrong answer. Only a fool would bet their job on a roll of the dice where close to 1 out of 3 times you go bust. | ||
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| LawOrder | #8 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 8:16:13 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Groupie Groups: Registered Thanks: 12 times | If you're that worried about poly then don't apply. | ||
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| mallen | #9 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 9:07:47 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Was thanked: 41 time(s) in 37 post(s) | Originally Posted by: LawOrder If you're that worried about poly then don't apply. And that's what somone allways says, with the subtext that the person asking the question must plan on lying and thus is dishonest and should not apply. But the peer reveiwed science published in the literature says an honest person has a 30% chance of failing that polygraph. And thus the question is asked, will a failing polygraph when applying for a job cause you to be fired from your current job which presumably did NOT require a poly.(as I noted before, I don't care about that in the context of denying me a job. You get denied jobs because you fidget or stare at the floor or say "um" too many times.So long as they don't deny based on a protected class, they can do whatever they please) Im assuming also (with little actual evidence) that the 30% does not apply to those that have taken them before. In other words that the results are at LEAST repeatable. So if you take one and pass, you will likely be able to take one and pass again. If it were not, I think it would be more obvious. But if you never have, then it's up in the air. Edited by userTuesday, January 28, 2020 9:15:08 PM(UTC) |Reason: Not specified | ||
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| velcroTech | #10 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 10:22:37 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Thanks: 27 times | Originally Posted by: mallen Originally Posted by: LawOrder If you're that worried about poly then don't apply. And that's what somone allways says, with the subtext that the person asking the question must plan on lying and thus is dishonest and should not apply. But the peer reveiwed science published in the literature says an honest person has a 30% chance of failing that polygraph. And thus the question is asked, will a failing polygraph when applying for a job cause you to be fired from your current job which presumably did NOT require a poly.(as I noted before, I don't care about that in the context of denying me a job. You get denied jobs because you fidget or stare at the floor or say "um" too many times.So long as they don't deny based on a protected class, they can do whatever they please) Im assuming also (with little actual evidence) that the 30% does not apply to those that have taken them before. In other words that the results are at LEAST repeatable. So if you take one and pass, you will likely be able to take one and pass again. If it were not, I think it would be more obvious. But if you never have, then it's up in the air. This is a no. What causes people to lose their clearance is when they admit to something negative that falls within The 13 Adjudicative Guidelines for determining eligibility. Failing the poly doesn't mean you lose your job, nor clearance. | ||
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| mallen | #11 Posted : Tuesday, January 28, 2020 11:52:37 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Was thanked: 41 time(s) in 37 post(s) | Originally Posted by: velcroTech Originally Posted by: mallen Originally Posted by: LawOrder If you're that worried about poly then don't apply. And that's what somone allways says, with the subtext that the person asking the question must plan on lying and thus is dishonest and should not apply. But the peer reveiwed science published in the literature says an honest person has a 30% chance of failing that polygraph. And thus the question is asked, will a failing polygraph when applying for a job cause you to be fired from your current job which presumably did NOT require a poly.(as I noted before, I don't care about that in the context of denying me a job. You get denied jobs because you fidget or stare at the floor or say "um" too many times.So long as they don't deny based on a protected class, they can do whatever they please) Im assuming also (with little actual evidence) that the 30% does not apply to those that have taken them before. In other words that the results are at LEAST repeatable. So if you take one and pass, you will likely be able to take one and pass again. If it were not, I think it would be more obvious. But if you never have, then it's up in the air. This is a no. What causes people to lose their clearance is when they admit to something negative that falls within The 13 Adjudicative Guidelines for determining eligibility. Failing the poly doesn't mean you lose your job, nor clearance. Cool,then I can apply all I want. I would expect that for MOST people, the situation would get BETTER with the subsequent investigation assuming you followed the rules. That weed you smoked in college was more distantly in the past, as were those bills you didn't pay and that tax return you only filed when you were applying for a clearance and that dui you got on your 21st birthday. As such, if you passed the first time, you should pass the second. Unless they dig even deeper on the subsequent BI or there are special requirements, like say you used hard drugs as a teenager 8 years ago. They perhaps might accept it for some jobs under the rationale that you cleaned up your act and grew up, but the DEA for example has a stricter policy. Edited by userWednesday, January 29, 2020 12:02:06 AM(UTC) |Reason: Not specified | ||
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| QuickQuestion | #12 Posted : Wednesday, January 29, 2020 1:58:53 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Newbie Groups: Registered | To clarify a bit more, I'm not worried about the poly. My concern is that there is some standard that CIA holds in terms of granting their clearances that exceeds DOD standards, and that this can cause a revokation of DOD clearance if you apply for a CIA clearance. It seems like that sort of thing is exceptionally rare but I'm trying to get a better gauge on it. | ||
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| velcroTech | #13 Posted : Wednesday, January 29, 2020 6:32:28 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Senior Member Groups: Registered Thanks: 27 times | Originally Posted by: QuickQuestion To clarify a bit more, I'm not worried about the poly. My concern is that there is some standard that CIA holds in terms of granting their clearances that exceeds DOD standards, and that this can cause a revokation of DOD clearance if you apply for a CIA clearance. It seems like that sort of thing is exceptionally rare but I'm trying to get a better gauge on it. The information that you put on the forms should be identical between the CIA SF86 and the DOD SF86. One might use a longer form but the information should all remain the same. So no. | ||
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| buckaneers | #14 Posted : Sunday, February 2, 2020 12:28:31 PM(UTC) | ||
| Rank: Advisor Groups: Registered Was thanked: 267 time(s) in 196 post(s) | I've heard the same stories as well and honestly, I wouldn't risk it. It isn't worth it. The security standards are more stringent due to the fact that they administer lifestyle polys while most DoD agencies do not. Lifestyle polys are done to see if you could be blackmailed for anything. Totally fine if you are young or lived a fairly sterile/sheltered life, but if you are 30+, maybe a military veteran, and lived life, anyone could be theoretically blackmailed for something. Agencies also have a lot more leeway for denying entry for new hires than they do for existing employees. And depending on where you want to go, you might have to suffer through a 5 year probationary period where a full job offer isn't guaranteed even if you make it. On top of that, CIA is in Langley. If you think the cost of living in a place like Woodbridge is ridiculous, wait until you go up there. You can feel your wallet getting lighter just driving by, which really makes me wonder how people can afford $500,000+ houses on GG salaries. So yeah. Stay in DoD. Enjoy serving your country while also having job security and more options for work locations than just Langley. Edited by userSunday, February 2, 2020 12:35:30 PM(UTC) |Reason: Not specified | ||
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